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Steph and Dr. Elana recap the interview with Eve Rodsky, author of the popular book Fair Play, a game-changing solution for when you have too much to do (and more life to live). Fair Play helps couples be more efficient with dividing and accomplishing household tasks. Steph and Dr. Elana share their main takeaways, highlight important points, and give you a sneak peek into what happens in their own homes when it comes to splitting household tasks. If you want to see a significant difference in how your family operates, listen to this week’s recap and get help taking action in your own home.
Today’s podcast is sponsored by ButcherBox. Get two 6-oz grass-fed, grass-finished filet mignons PLUS two pounds of wild-caught salmon in your first box for FREE. Click to sign up today!
Elana Roumell 0:03
I think we oftentimes make ourselves wrong, and we we label it as ‘selfish’ to do this. It’s the last thing from selfish. It’s actually what we need in order to be our best selves, in order to be the mother we want to be, in order to be the wife we want to be, in order to just be like the citizen that contributes in society. I think it’s just so important that we really have this firm grasp on that and we don’t let that go unnoticed.
Stephanie Greunke 0:32
Welcome back to the Whole Mamas Podcast. We’re here to give you tools, resources and evidence-based information so you can make the best decisions for yourself and your family. Whether you’re trying to conceive or navigating life with a toddler or a teenager, we’ve got you covered. I’m Stephanie Greuke. Whole30’s registered dietitian and program manager for Whole Mamas Club. I’m also the co-creator of Whole Mama’s Pregnancy Program where I teach moms how to navigate the endless decisions around pregnancy.
Elana Roumell 0:57
And I’m Dr. Elana Roumell, pediatric naturopathic doctor, and creator of Med School for Moms, an online resource where I teach moms how to safely be a doctor mom.
Stephanie Greunke 1:07
Today, Elana and I are going to recap the interview with Eve Rodsky, author of the book Fair Play, which outlines a system that helps couples be more efficient with their long list of to-do’s. We’re going to share our main takeaways, highlight important points we want you to consider in your own home, and give you a sneak peek into what happens in our homes behind closed doors when it comes to splitting household tasks.
But before we start the recap, we want to thank our partner Butcher Box. Last week Elana mentioned the incredible deal Butcher Box has going on right now. And we want to make sure that you take action immediately because it’s an incredible deal that won’t last long. Right now new members get to six ounce grass-fed grass-finished, that’s the important part, filet minon steaks and two pounds of wild caught Alaskan salmon and $20 off their order. Butcher Box’s wild caught sustainably sourced salmon is my favorite. It contains no additives. It’s red, rich flesh is actually naturally occurring from their diet. Their diet is full of carotenoid red shrimp and krill, and that’s what gives it the red color versus synthetic acid xanthine, which is that carotenoid that is bad to farm raised fish to make them look more pink and red. I also love that their salmon filets are flash frozen and vacuum sealed so I can make as little or as few as I want. I add their salmon to my monthly box every month to make sure my family is getting those anti inflammatory omega three fatty acids for brain development for my growing toddlers and mental health for yours truly, instead of spending a ton of money to get a babysitter and overpriced food at a restaurant. Why not make a delicious meal at home to celebrate Valentine’s Day or simply making it through another busy week. There’s nothing sexier and more efficient than cooking with your significant other and having a candlelight dinner at home eating foods that won’t leave you bloated and cranky like restaurant meals can sometimes do. Make date night or any night even better with Butcher Box.
All right now on the show. I before we begin the recap, I’m so excited to get into this, I want to hear what you’re doing today to nourish yoursel Elana?
Elana Roumell 3:06
Well Steph, it kind of has to do with food, so I love it. We’re talking about Butcher Box because I’m getting back into my meal preps. And if you follow me on Instagram, I know you do stuff I love do my meal prep Mondays. And so I oftentimes tag Butcher Box because I honestly I use so much of their products, but it’s just so nourishing to me like right after this podcast recording, I’m able to go and make some lunch for my husband and me and it’s already ready. Like I don’t have to like figure out what to do. It doesn’t create any added stress. And so it’s such a nourishing practice for me to get all of my meals done for the week on a Monday. And then go ahead and just have food, nourishing and healthy lunches and dinners ready for me just to pretty much warm up and to put together for the entire week and I just absolutely love that. So I’m just so excited that now I have the energy. Rafi is now three months and so I’m really getting back into my routine and it’s probably my number one or practice that I do week after week.
Stephanie Greunke 4:02
I’m so glad you’re getting back into them. And they’re so fun to watch what you make. And I always get inspired to make new things. And soup is something that you make a lot and I don’t make a ton in our house, but I definitely need to know that it’s cold outside and it just feels so good to have a warm soup.
Elana Roumell 4:18
Well, good. I think in Wisconsin, you’re definitely gonna share some some fun ideas. I actually have a bone broth going on the crockpot now. But again, it’s so easy just to do that and have things going I think because of my postpartum healing time. I was doing a lot more soups, but I love soups is probably one of my favorite type of foods. So thanks I’m so glad I can inspire you and I love inspiring other moms so it’s well worth my time posting. So Steph, what did you do today? Or what do you plan to do to nourish yourself?
Stephanie Greunke 4:47
I just had to laugh because at the time of the recording last night I we actually have this deal in our house where my husband puts the kids down to bed because they listen to him a lot better than they listen to me. And so my husband will put them to sleep at night. And I usually will take a shower and get ready for bed and I have been reading a book instead of scrolling Instagram – that’s been like one of my things that I nourish myself at night. And I actually last night, I was reading Eve’s book in preparation for this recap, by candlelight. And it took a while for my husband to come back in the room. And I was like, I was wondering what he was doing. I kind of thought that it was my kids were having a hard time falling asleep or whatnot. And he came upstairs and I was like, Wow, it took you a long time to put the kids down tonight. And he’s like, ‘Nope, I was downstairs just kind of cleaning things up.’ And he was downstairs for 90 minutes just cleaning things up. So I was like, ‘What a win! I’m here reading book a reading a book about splitting tasks. And my husband’s downstairs doing work.’ Iwas like, he must have caught the draft of me reading this book.
Elana Roumell 5:54
Oh, my goodness, how funny! Well, I’m glad though, that you’re at least able to get some time to read this book. Because I absolutely loved it.
Stephanie Greunke 6:02
It is so good. I’m so glad that we were able to bring Eve on. And really what a powerful episode, it was very apparent that you and Eve are really passionate about this topic. And you both were on fire during the entire episode. And I feel like this episode and Eve’s book is so on brand right now with the postpartum program that I’m filming. Because this is something we talked about the very first module, even before we get into how to nourish yourself in the postpartum period for healing, is we’ve got to take things off our plate to be able to really take care of ourselves. And this is something that you and I talk about a lot. And I know it’s a topic that has come up for both of us during our couples counseling. But I know for me, it was really nice to have like an action step to take because I feel like there’s a lot of talk and conversations about ‘well make sure that you’re asking for help’ and ‘make sure that you’re enrolling other people to help you with household tasks,’ but since she lays something down so clearly and concisely, that just works better with my brain. So I hope that works really well with other people too. I know you love structures and organizations. And this is just such a great episode. When she started the episode, one of the first things she talked about was that she just broke down after getting a text message from her husband asking about blueberries. And I just had to laugh because that just happens all the time. It’s the one thing that puts you over the edge that is seemingly ridiculous, but it’s because you’ve been building so much resentment and like really having this checklist of things that you’re angry about. And then one little thing just pushes you over. So I was curious when she was sharing that story. Did you ever have a time like that where maybe Anthony or somebody did something really small but you just went off the edge and it set you off? I’d love to hear maybe an example and then what you did to move through that.
Elana Roumell 7:57
Oh, you know, that’s a good question Steph, because I don’t actually know if it was like this one scenario that happened that actually put me over the edge. Or if it was actually, I think a lot for me was just reading her book and realizing like, Oh my goodness, like, I didn’t even realize how much I’ve been doing. You know, like, I think it, it helped me be more proactive so that there wasn’t that one thing that tipped me over the edge, you know, like, I bet if I didn’t read each book, and I would have just gone another few, maybe months, or even maybe a year or so I would have gotten that one moment or that text or that incident, or whatever that would have put me over the edge simply because I wasn’t mindful of it. You know, she talked a lot about how we kind of live in like the subconscious and we want to move to conscious and be more aware of these type of feelings and emotions and events. And I think lately, things have been just going so well for Anthony and I and I have been doing a lot more of the household work and I haven’t mind doing it. But sure there’s days especially now with two kids that I’m like, ‘Oh my God. God, how am I going to do all of this stuff?’ And so it just hasn’t built up in me quite yet. But I bet it would if I if I let this go unnoticed.
And so for me, I think my big trigger was actually reading Eve’s book. And I mentioned this in my episode with her is that it kind of riled me up, like, it got me upset. And he’s like, ‘Why are you upset? Like, did I do something?’ And I was like, ‘No, you have not done anything, but I’m upset. And I can’t explain it quite yet. But reading this book is making me get more and more clear.’ And he’s like, ‘I don’t like this.’ But I was like, ‘No, no, it’s gonna be awesome in the end, but I’m just starting to realize things that I didn’t, I wasn’t aware of right earlier.’ And so it’s really great, because it gives us more things to talk about. And so he’s like, ‘Okay, that’s great. When you’re done with the book, I’d love to talk about it.’ So I think just to answer your question, again, just to wrap that up, is I think it’s really the book that got me more aware of all of the invisible work that I do and all of the mental load that I have, and what’s motivating to me is just having some freedom from that mental load. I think for Eve a lot of her drive was that she wanted more of what she calls her unicorn time or unicorn space. But from for me, it was definitely more having that like mental load off my shoulders and to really be able to share more of those responsibilities.
Stephanie Greunke 10:17
Yeah, and I think for you, yeah, it was really moving from that subconscious. Like, I don’t really know why I’m angry. I’m like feeling kind of angry too. Oh, this is why like it really looking at all the things that you’re doing how bring you into that conscious and, and that’s when we can take action. And I can see I can see your husband getting a little bit defensive or, you know, even other partners that may see their way I was reading this book of like, oh, like, ‘What is this, what’s inside of this book that’s riling her up,’ or, you know, whatnot. And really what’s happening is you’re you’re being more aware so that you can have thoughtful conversations about this and ultimately make you happier. So I think it’s like this weird interim time where you’re becoming conscious. You don’t really know what do or how to approach it, but then you figure it out and you get these systems and the whole family household is way more harmonious. Yes.
Elana Roumell 11:07
And that was well said and the beauty about the book is that Eve actually really gives you tips and and almost like rules and steps to how to talk to your partner about it and how to go about the system and how to make it so he feels like this is like a win for him. And so I just thought that that was a really great, great advice, because sometimes we definitely need it. I’m just curious though, Steph for you, I mean, how’s it been going just with you and Brian right now splitting household tasks, and how is this book now kind of helped potentially change things up for you guys?
Stephanie Greunke 11:41
I’m really excited about this book, because we’ve been we’ve been together for over 13 years now. And so we’ve had to figure out different systems of how to get things done and and things kind of just fall into people’s laps, but they’re not really defined and so I really love the idea of having this structure because for those 13 years, we’ve had such an informal structure. And I feel like there are things that I do that he has no idea the extent of how long it takes or how much it weighs on me, or like she was talking about the fact that sometimes we just want to do it ourselves. And we think that it would take more time to explain it to other people, when if you add up even those 10 minute tasks, like you can have weeks of your life back if you give it to somebody else. So we’ve been doing well recently, just because we’ve been together for a really long time, and we have like our informal systems, but I do know that I carry a lot more weight than what I want to and I am excited to play with this. I need to finish reading a little bit more of it and he’s definitely on board to implement it into our lives because he likes that structure to being a marine. He just loves knowing what needs to be done and he’s on board with it. But another thing that’s happening right now is he’s shifting his work to now working from home. And so a lot of the things that I took care of like getting dinner ready now that he’s home, and I’m actually working out of a co-working spot, like he’s in charge of doing that. So things really do shift when it comes to motherhood in terms of roles. I mean, in the beginning, when you have a newborn, you’re responsible for so much of the feeding, but then as they get older, and they can eat solid foods, you know, sometimes there can be more help from your partner with that as well. So we’re excited about this game Fair Play. And I think you don’t have to be at a breakdown to implement this. Even if you think you’re doing pretty well, it’s still worth maybe exploring to see if you can bring that good enough to better or great.
Elana Roumell 13:45
I love that. And that’s going to be a very different dynamic for you too. Because you used to be the one exclusively working from home and now both of you guys and moving, you know, and new schools and new jobs. I mean, this is going to be a really big shift for you guys. So I think better now than ever, to start creating new systems and structures to support you guys. And I know you’ve done a lot with just a couples counseling that both of us got a chance to work with the same coach, which I just love. I know you guys are doing better than ever, and I still love how proactive you want to be with potentially implementing these steps as well.
Stephanie Greunke 14:17
Yeah, and then also, you know, looking at what you can delegate to your kids as they get older to there’s different seasons, right? So now we’re like, ‘Okay, Otto you’re five, you can definitely start out being with little things throughout the house.’ And so figuring out how to ship that load to your kids as well.
Elana Roumell 14:32
I love that and wasn’t that like the cutest thing ever? When her son came on? Like that ending? I was like, Oh my god, this is like picture perfect. I know, goosebumps from that. I know. So sweet. That’s great. Okay, so I really want to bring up one of the things that like I probably underlined `and circled and highlighted and starred, right. It was how she talked about the idea of multitasking. And she said that there’s really no data to suggest that women are better multi taskers than men. And in fact, multitasking is hard on anyone’s brain, right? We’re really more wired to be focused on one task at a time. I just think that that’s so neat. I’ve never heard that there’s no data to suggest, it’s just been like the status quo I assumed was correct. So I’m just curious Steph if you agree with this, and if you think some of the moms that you work with in your community really struggle with.
Stephanie Greunke 15:22
I was blown away by this. I think I’ve heard so many different people talk about multitasking and that you can’t do it. But I haven’t heard people say, but also females are not better than males. Like I kind of knew that multitasking, like you really can’t focus on significant tasks doing them at once, but this shift in, well, then why do we think and why do we even joke about it like, ‘Oh, look at me doing five things at once.’ It’s like, that is stressful, and I didn’t realize how much it was weighing on me until I really pulled back from doing it. So for example, even something as was like washing the dishes and try and have a conversation with my kids or my husband like, I am not really hearing what they’re saying. And they don’t really feel heard because I’m looking at the dish and not them. And so even something little, like, I’ll be washing the dishes or putting them in the dishwasher. And if my husband is talking to me, or my kids are talking to me, I will stop. If it’s something that’s more than just like I need a glass of water, right, I will stop and actually turn towards them and look them in the eye and be with them in that moment. And even something like listening to like music or a podcast when I’m doing something like it just I didn’t realize how much it weighs on me and I know it weighs on the moms in my community too. And I feel this because we’re all so busy with the things on our to do lists that we think is going to be more efficient if we are multitasking but I would challenge you to take one thing at a time. Just choose one activity that you find yourself constantly multitasking and do one thing at a time. And you actually might find that you’re able to finish that task faster, and then move on to that next task and have your overall time the last because you’re being way more efficient in that moment. Same thing happens with work, you know, checking emails, and then trying to do a bunch of work tasks at the same time like that is really distracting and trying to switch that brain state is going to take you way more time to accomplish the task if you’re checking emails in between.
Elana Roumell 17:28
I agree completely. And I just wanted to reiterate something that’s in the book and something we talked about on the podcast was how Eve interviewed a lot of couples who had the exact same type of job and their day to day work life was identical. And she’s even outlined it in one of the chapters in the book where essentially from nine to 10 each, you know, woman and the man has this one meeting and then from 10 to 11. They have this and then from 11 to 12. And you know, I mean it was literally like, day to day, exact amount of work. And then the woman’s though tasks in between each of her breaks was like, call the school to fill out this form, you know, go grocery shopping, you know, take the child to the doctors, I don’t know, you know, like little things in between. And when she interviewed them, they’re like, why is it that the woman is responsible for all these and you guys literally have identical work schedules. And even the woman was the one who just humbly said, ‘Well, I just I get things done, and I just do it. And it’s just, it’s just the way it works here.’ And I just find it to be interesting, because Eve also said, it’s like, as women, we’re actually our own worst victims, and that we just allow this to just happen. And that’s a lot of load on a woman to have the exact same day to day tasks as a man and add on all of these other household tasks. And so I just feel like we deserve to stick up for ourselves a little bit more. And I think that was just saying we’re tired or we have so much to do or we don’t have time to do those. You know how hobbies are those special interests that we have. Because we’re so busy with things. I just think it’s important for us to just step back and really evaluate. Is this truly what is making us happy in life? Are we truly getting the most out of our everyday? And if you can answer yes, then you know, awesome, you know, then you just keep on doing exactly what you’re doing. There’s absolutely no reason for you to change. But if you feel like there’s some kind of inkling, or any kind of gut feeling where you feel like, actually, I don’t feel like this is fair. And I would like to see this restructured, then we suggest that, you know, you reevaluate what a fair playing game looks like in your day to day and in your partnership. And that’s all it is. Again, it’s not called equal play. It’s called fair play. And I think that in all different seasons in your life and all different years, however many kids or if you don’t even have kids quite yet, you’re just always going to reevaluate it and that’s what I loved about this philosophy is just at the end of the day, both partners deserve to be happy and they deserve to really live out their life exactly how they want it. And so it’s just a new language. It’s a new way of going about getting our needs met and getting the to do’s done in a efficient and harmonious way. And so I just wanted to reiterate that is that there’s times for change, and there’s times to reevaluate. And I think we all deserve to be able to have the time to reflect on that.
Stephanie Greunke 20:23
You know, and one thing, when you’re explaining that scenario, where there was the couple that was doing the same job, but the woman was taking on all the work. What I think it comes down to a lot of times I know with myself and the moms that I talked to, is that trust factor of like, not just I think I’m going to do it better, but I’m going to get it done. Because there have been times where they have delegated tasks or they’ve tried this approach and their partner doesn’t pull through. And they might think well, I just want to do because I want to make sure it gets done or I don’t want to have to like add the mental tag. of nagging the partner to make sure that they got it done, because that weighs on you too. But I think it’s really about making sure that that whole conception to execution and planning, like that whole thing is really important so that they understand why this needs to get done. And they can take that responsibility. And I think it’s time that we really do allow the people in our life to take responsibility for the things that they’re asked to do, and that we agree together to have them do because we need to get that off our plate for one. And we also don’t need the nagging to be on our plate. And just like we would expect our kids to learn that skill of if you say you’re going to do something, you do it, I think we should also put that on the loved ones in our life and making them being in integrity with what they say.
Elana Roumell 21:47
Absolutely. And I actually want to speak a little bit about this in my personal experience. So if I may share just an example. I think very often, when we say we just don’t trust our partner to fulfill a certain task, it’s simply because we haven’t made the time to really go over what that CPE is from conception, planning and execution. And I know this is exactly how my household ran prior to us starting our Sunday weekly meetings. I felt like I never had the time to literally just sit down and talk about these things. It just life just happens. And we just got so busy. And so when things need to get done, I saw them and I just did them versus take the time out of our busy week to actually talk about what actually needs to be done and then delegate what needs to be done. Those Sunday weekly check ins really was a huge game changer. And this was right before I even read Fair Play, you know, I’ve been talking about that for a number of months on on our podcast.
Now we’re going to take it another step further with the cards but for me to at least feel like I had the space to talk to Anthony about the test and then actually talk in depth about what the test looks like from conception to planning to execution has really helped us get those tests done in the way that I can delegate and feel confident in that he’s going to accomplish it. And I love how he says is, why aren’t we taking our households as our most respected and rigorous organization that we run, it’s as if we’re not making the time to dedicate to what is the most important aspect of our life, we just kind of go in, jump in and just do you know, we just get things done. And we’re barely even checking in with each other sometimes simply because life gets so busy. And so I know that it takes more time, but in the end, it saves you time.
And I want to just give you an example of this from a business perspective. I have staff or employees that I have trained over the years, and anytime you bring on someone new, there is a training period that has to be had. It’s not fun, it’s not easy, it’s definitely time consuming. This is why as business owners, we want to create systems and operations manual and things written or videos so that you’re not always repeating yourself. Or if someone doesn’t exactly know what to do, or they forgot what to do that there’s something in place for them to remember what to do so that they could do it and do it correctly. And for any business owner may be listening, you’ve been there, and you’ve done that. And it’s it’s definitely a challenging time. But it’s a very important time, this training period, in order to get the long term success so that you truly are freed up. And so somebody else takes ownership over that task. And so I just wanted to mention that for these moms listening, that yes, the beginning is probably the hardest time. Sometimes you don’t want to trust that your partner is going to take over these tasks. Sometimes you don’t want to make the time or feel like you have the time to actually sit down and go step by step with the tasks. This is why Eve has actually outlined the all 100 tasks for you, and then it’s up to you to, to sit down and actually create what values you have what expectations you have around each task, the beginning part will be the hardest and the most time consuming, but then the longevity of the relationship and all these tasks will just be so much easier in the long run. And I just have the chills about that because I know what that’s like in the business world. And I just can’t wait to have that in my personal life as well.
Stephanie Greunke 25:26
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Elana Roumell 27:23
Yeah, that’s a great tip. And really, what the book suggests is that you just put all 100 cards out on the table, and you really evaluate number one – are all these cards even applicable to us or not, and hopefully, you can maybe get down to like 75 or 80, right? Like the whole idea is that you have fewer cards because you know not everyone has a pet for example. So you don’t need the animal card or the pet card. But yes, at first, you’re not going to just delegate some of the things that are near and dear to you. In fact, those are the things that you first want to address like, I think you and me both Steph. We love being there. The cardholders to our family’s health and wellness. I mean, it just comes naturally to us. We love doing that. We love researching the new vitamins and supplements. We love being at every doctor’s appointment, you know, we love being as active and involved in that as possible. And that’s just not a card. I’m willing to give up. I want full ownership over that card. And I think that you probably could relate to that.
But I’ll be honest, like a similar to Eve, I’m okay not having ownership over the extra curricular sports of, you know, activities when my kids get old enough for that, like if he wants full ownership because he’s the athlete and he loves that stuff. Like, how cool is that, but guess what it comes with, also, you know, ordering the equipment and scheduling the games and making sure you bring snacks for when your child is responsible for bringing snacks for that game, you know, like all of those other things that go in not just showing up for the games. So I just find it to be such an incredible system to at least try out or at least have some kind of solution around this. And I do agree that you get to choose which tasks you want. You and your partner are the ones who get to play this game. Your delegation of tasks with you and Brian stuff is going to be so different than the tests that I delegate with Anthony and myself. And again, every season is different every year may be different. And it’s okay. It’s great. This is why you just have to be in good communication with your partner to make this all work. And then as long as you’re playing fairlight you got the game going?
Stephanie Greunke 29:22
Yeah, absolutely. And just how much time she was talking about with those like extra curricular activities. It’s like, these things add up. I think sometimes we, we forget that. We’re like, Oh, we didn’t do anything today, or Oh, it’s not a big deal. I’ll just schedule them in soccer practice, but there are so many steps that take place so I can’t remember how many hours she said it took off of her plat…
Elana Roumell 29:45
She said six hours, which was surprising but you know it! I believe her because that spreadsheet she collected over the seven years from so many different families. These are all averages. It’s not like she’s the only one doing it. She’s collected data from thousands and interviewed I mean experts in this I just find that to be so fascinating. It’s not like she just came up with this just all on her own. I mean, this is extensive research and time she put into this
Stephanie Greunke 30:12
Yeah. And really what that did was it allowed her to have some more of that unicorn time. And for those who didn’t hear it on the first episode, or didn’t read the book, that unicorn time she describes as unpaid time for yourself doing what you love, and really leaning into your passion and purposes. And this unicorn time is so important, you really need to reclaim this time versus giving it away. And one of the best ways that you can do this is by having that division of labor in your household and delegating tasks to reduce your mental load. And that’s what this whole book and this entire podcast and recap is about. So what I want everyone that is listening to do is pick out one activity that they want to reclaim and schedule about 20 minutes for this week to do it. I know for me, I’ll give you an example. It’s just going hiking with a friend and spending that time outdoors and having that conversation and moving. My body is so important to me. And that’s what I want to reclaim more of. So what is it for you, Elana? What are you going to do for your unicorn time this week?
Elana Roumell 31:18
That’s a good question. I think a lot I think, for me, it’s getting back to my pilates exercising, I’ve really missed it a lot. And I feel like I’ve not gone because of the excuse of somewhat of childcare or, or whatever I have, you know, to get there or the time it takes to drive and then work out and then come home, or even how expensive it could be because polities is not one of the cheaper of the exercises. And to me that like it really fuels me and it gives me such good mental clarity. I feel strong. I feel connected to my body when I do polities. And so I’m going to have to say that one Steph, and I’m so excited that I’m finally really getting back into that. So that’s really exciting for me.
Stephanie Greunke 31:57
Yeah, and if 20 minutes is too much you haven’t reclaimed that time, you haven’t had the discussion or you feel like it’s just a really busy week, maybe your partner is out of town, even just five minutes. Whatever you can do that is just for you is so important. So, all right, any other takeaways from this episode? I know, I really loved it I’m excited to finish it. But I want to hear what you have.
Elana Roumell 32:21
Yeah, I do. I have a number of things. But just to also talk a little bit about the unicorn time or even just taking the five or 20 minutes. I think we oftentimes make ourselves wrong, and we we label it as selfish to do this. And I think what Eve said, I think on our podcast and in her book is, it’s the last thing from selfish. It’s actually what we need in order to be our best selves, in order to be the mother we want to be, in order to be the wife we want to be, in order to just be like the citizen that contributes in society. I think it’s just so important that we really have this firm grasp on that and we don’t let that go unnoticed. She has cards in the deck specifically for unicorn time. And that’s for both partners. It’s not like one should get more than the other, you guys should both get that. And both of you guys should be able to support each other with that. And I just think that is so incredibly important to always remember, always remember, repeat in your head that this is not selfish, that this is a necessity. It’s just like brushing your teeth or taking a shower or getting your clothes on. This is something that’s very important. Something that lights you up is just what enables you to really share your gifts with the world. And so I just wanted to emphasize that Steph.
The other thing I would love to just kind of list out from her book, since we have a little bit of time is a lot about how do we even go about talking to our husbands about this and setting them up. I wanted to share that I did not follow what Eve said in the book and I think it failed on me. Like I actually like to think I’m a really effective communicator. I love communication and going about things and how to get to the outcome that I would like. And I think that I approached it well with Anthony. But then by the end, his reaction was like, well, ‘Elana if this means that I need to take on 35% more work, then I just don’t have the capacity. Like there’s no way that’s going to do that.’ And it was like a big like knife stabbing in my heart. Like what like, you seem so excited, Anthony, like, how did you just end it on that like, it really was hard for me and we definitely cleaned things up and he apologized for that and but I also apologize for the way I went about inviting him into this idea. It was like, he kind of said, ‘You just like, brought this up. I felt like things were going so well for us. And like all of a sudden you needed to like change things up desperately because you’re so excited about this game, but like, from my perspective, if that just means that I need to do more. Well, that isn’t like an exciting thing for me.’ So I really learned a lot from my experience and I wanted to share authentically with you moms listening is that I think It’s important to read Eve strategies. And some of the things that I just wanted to list off quickly is how important it is that both you and your husband see playing the game as a win for both of you guys. And I believe if you could go into the conversation, and have your husband see all the potential outcomes and what it would be like to win for both of you, he’s going to be much more open minded and much more not only just open minded, but excited to start playing.
So if I may, I just wanted to list a few points that she brings up, she brings up how you’re going to learn a new vernacular about how home life that speaks to you. So essentially, finally, you and your spouse are speaking the same language. You know, you can ask your husband say, ‘Hey, I feel like it’s important that we’re now like on the same page, and I want to develop a new way of us communicating and to get things done. Are you up for that?’ I don’t see why any partner would not be open to just really making sure you guys have clear communication. She mentioned that both of you guys would get clear defined roles and expectations. So you’re no longer in the dark about who’s doing what. And I think that’s such a great point that, you know, you could say to your husband, ‘Look, I know sometimes I just kind of like drop a bomb on you and say, Hey, can you do this? Can you do this? Can you do this, and then I get frustrated, because you don’t do it? Well, well, this is going to help prevent doing that, because you’re going to be very clear on exactly what to do, you’re going to get permission to take the lead, you’re going to really be able to trust your partner.’ And so when you bring up the word trust, your partner is going to like, lighten up because for him, that’s all he wants from you. He wants you to be able to trust and respect what he gets to do, and you’re going to be able to develop that in one another. Both of you guys are going to get more ownership over the work you do. Everyone wants that autonomy and that feeling of ownership. And so that’s a huge outcome. She added that you’d feel guilt free with time to pursue friendships and personal interests outside of your role as partner or husband or father. And so again, this is about the unicorn space emphasizing how both of you guys are going to be able to get this time and freedom to be able to have, you’re going to ultimately have happier partnership that indoors the longevity of time. You know, there’s so the rates of divorce is so high, what can we do to be proactive and to prevent something like that. And just essentially having a more fulfilling and rewarding parenting experience, you know, for you guys to share in the parenting roles will be more fulfilling. And so, you know, I just I read this list from her book just to help share that if we can approach our husbands, letting them know what the possible outcomes of just having this the shift of a new system, they’re going to be lit up, you know, they’re going to be excited, because who wouldn’t want some of these things. And so I just wanted to kind of mention as my big takeaway is that if I had to do it all over again, I would probably have read that list and gone about it a little bit differently. And so I just wanted to help learn from my mistakes so that you guys could approach this in a way that really could win for both of you guys.
Stephanie Greunke 37:53
Oh, that’s a great list. I wish that was like on the first page of the book too, really help us explain. So glad you gave us that list because many of us, I’m sure have ordered the book or we’re waiting on our books to come. So knowing that going into it, I think sometimes I know for my husband, the title even was a little bit a little bit cautious, like Fair Play, like what do you mean things aren’t fair to you. And so he was hesitant to even explore it based on the title and he just thought it was going to be like a husband bashing book. But going into that conversation with those points, I think really helps them see that it’s a win win situation for both of you. So thank you for sharing those.
Elana Roumell 38:33
Absolutely. Yes. What are your takeaways Steph? I’m sure you got so much from it, too. So I’m just curious if you can help us and by sharing some of your takeaways.
Stephanie Greunke 38:43
I think a lot of what we already talked about where the big takeaways for me just realizing how much those first couple of chapters where she explains how much of that mental load is placed on us was, it was an eye opener for me. I think when she talks about moving from subconscious to conscious, to taking action. I think many of us are walking around either really resentful, or feeling like things are fine, or just the way that they are, and there’s no changing it. So there was a lot of hope in this book for me that things don’t have to feel so heavy and that there’s a different way and she’s giving us that path, I think is amazing. And, you know, as new moms, we have so much life left ahead for us. And, you know, our kids are still young. And so them being able to see us distributing tasks, I think will help them you know, once they grow up and grow out of the house, and they’re living with their partners, and married or whatever it is, they’ll be able to see how to divide household responsibilities and how to have things clearly defined. Because I know in our family like that wasn’t the case. I mean, my my dad, how he grew up was the mom does everything around the house, right? And that’s just what was assumed. So being able to transform the way that we take care of things in our household and having our boys see that and I think you know, everybody listening like having your child see that is just so powerful, it can really change the game for future generations.
Elana Roumell 40:14
That’s a great, great way to end and I’m so glad that you highlighted that because I couldn’t agree more. I think that’s just beautiful. And I think a lot of us women are very inspired to make changes so that we could be role models for our kids. So I think that’s a perfect way to end things. Thank you so much Steph.
Well, we all hope that you enjoyed today’s episode. I know Steph and I, we love sharing our personal experiences and really what we gain from the interviews that we get the privilege of doing. You know, we’re moms just like you we go through lives, we have partnerships, we’ve got kids, right, we have to feed our kids, we have to talk to our husbands we’ve got tasks to do so we you know, we’re in this with the moms so we love sharing what’s working for us, and how we can help inspire you guys to do the same and do things that really worked for you. This book, if it really calls to you, awesome. And if this book doesn’t, that’s okay too, right? Nothing is perfect or right or wrong. It’s just unique and we’re just so excited that we found something that lights us up and that we’d love to share with you.
We want to thank our partner for today’s episode, which is Butcher Box for offering our listeners a great deal. Just as a reminder for new customers you can get to grass fed filet minon steaks, posts plus two pounds of wild caught Alaskan salmon and $20 off by visiting butcherbox.com/wholemamas to get this great deal. The offer ends February 16, so don’t miss it!
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- How to see breakdowns in communication as a positive to help you troubleshoot your partnership
- What to do if your partner isn’t on board with dividing tasks
- How Steph and Dr. Elana split tasks with their partners
- Why multitasking isn’t a superpower
- How to effortlessly avoid having to nag
- Reclaiming your “unicorn time”
This episode's guest
The Whole Mamas podcast is led by Stephanie Greunke, a registered dietitian, and Dr. Elana Roumell, a naturopathic doctor, both trained in functional medicine and passionate about pregnancy, postpartum, and pediatrics. They invite experts on the show, answer burning questions, highlight key points, and make sure you feel empowered to take action. Find Whole Mamas and the Whole Mamas hosts on Instagram @wholemamasclub, @stephgreunke, @drelanaroumell, and at www.wholemamasclub.com.