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Steph and Dr. Elana recap episode 140 (Setting Boundaries to Reduce Burnout with Nedra Glover Tawwab MSW, LCSW) and episode 141 (Play Based Therapy for Kids with Jillian Kelly-Wavering MSSW, LCSW, RPT). This episode highlights key takeaways from the episodes and Steph and Dr. Elana share personal stories of how they effectively use some of these tools in their own relationships with their kids and partners.
We’d like to say a special thank you to today’s Podcast Partner: Four Sigmatic, a natural superfood company that specializes in mushroom-based drinks that benefit immunity, energy, and longevity. Get 15% off your order on their website with the code WHOLEMAMAS.
Stephanie Greunke 0:03
Getting both partners on the same page is really important too. I mean, this is easier said than done in some situations, but talking to your partner maybe on your weekly check ins or your daily downloads and figuring out, ‘How do we want to respond to that?’ And some of its going to be just as how you normally react, so it’s going to have to be something you practice staying calm, but you’ll see the rewards. I mean, it’ll be very clear if you start screaming or yelling or hitting back, t’s not going to resolve the situation as quickly as if you stay calm and really try to be with them during that tantrum.
Elana Roumell 0:39
Welcome back to Whole Mams Podcast. We’re here to give you tools, resources and evidence-based information so you can make the best decisions for yourself and your family. Whether you’re trying to conceive or navigating life with the toddler or a teenager, we got you covered. I’m Dr. Elana Roumell, pediatric naturopathic doctor and creator of Med School for Moms, an online resource where I teach moms how to safely be a doctor mom.
Stephanie Greunke 1:04
And I’m Stephanie Greunke, registered dietitian and Program Director for Whole30’s Whole Mamas Club. I’m also the co-creator of Whole30’s pregnancy program and our upcoming postpartum program.
Elana Roumell 1:14
Today’s episode, Steph and I recap episodes 140 and 141. They were on setting boundaries to reduce burnout with our special guests, Nedra, and play-based therapy for kids with expert Jillian. In this episode, we’re going to highlight key takeaways, we’re going to have a chance to share our personal stories on how we use some of these tools with our own kids effectively.
Now before we jump into today’s episodes, I want to take a quick minute to thank our podcast partner Four Sigmatic. Now you’ve heard Stephanie share on past episodes how we love Four Sigmatic and our favorite products. And now we want to share with you what some of the mamas have to say about their experience too. One mama shared how she loves their black lemonade. She says, ‘I’ve been really enjoying this mushroom lemonade lately. It tastes good and love that I get the health benefits from charcoal and chaga mushroom.’ Thanks for that review mama! And now another mama said ,’I got out of my comfort zone and became adventurous, even down to my coffee. I switched to Four Sigmatic mushroom coffee and I’m liking it!’ She signed off ‘boss mom.’ Do you think is so cute? So we love that review. And then another fun review from a mama. her shirt in her photos said, ‘Yes baby, I’m on mushrooms,’ which just right there is awesome. She wrote, ‘Chagas shrooms is the one where this room’s passion and enthusiasm originally started. But the reishi is my true love who helps my anxiety and keeps me grounded, never forgetting my lover’s cordyceps and lion’s mane, both who fuel my brain and body like no one else. Drink some shrooms and have a good day.’ These are so cute. We love seeing reviews on our Instagram page at Whole Mamas Club. They’re just they’re fun for us. We love listening to what you guys have to say we read all of our different reviews. So we’re so excited that we could share Four Sigmatic with the mamas and that you guys are enjoying it. So these mamas have been adventurous and taking their mushroom drinks to the next level. If you’re interested in doing the same, please go ahead and share your review over at home moms club on Instagram. And go ahead and check out other mushroom blends. If you haven’t tried it already, head over to foursigmatic.com/wholemamas, then you can receive 15% off your Four Sigmatic purchase. If it’s easier, just enter code WHOLEMAMAS at checkout and get that special deal. We really went all the mamas to enjoy the mushroom blends just like we have.
Now let’s start our recap today. And as you know, we always start off with our popular nourish yourself segment. So Steph, tell me a little bit about what you’re doing today, or maybe what you’re going to do later today, to nourish yourself.
Stephanie Greunke 3:52
Yeah, I actually have been changing up my diet a little bit to include more plant-based fats and fish. I always aim to add a lot of vegetable matter to my plates and healthy fats, and I get animal proteins at every meal. But I haven’t been as mindful about where my thoughts are coming from animal versus plant based, or switching up the variety of my proteins. And so I have been very mindful about making sure that instead of just choosing maybe chicken thigh that has a protein and fat, choosing more wild salmon or sardines and incorporating fish into my week, three times a week, which is a huge jump from my one time a week that I was really happy with. So I’m really trying to get in a variety of protein. And, you know, also, instead of cooking in maybe like animal fat, I’ve been looking at using a variety of different plant fats. So it’s just something that I was thinking about, something that feels really good at my brain and my body right now. And I’ve been noticing that I’ve had a little bit more of breakouts happening on my chin, and I just got a Dutch panel done, and that was kind of one of the things that indicated, well, maybe you want to switch from the animal-based fats to plant-based fats and reduce the dairy fat to see really what it looks like and how that can improve my skin and hormones.
Elana Roumell 5:17
Oh, that’s great. I love when you share with us these kind of like changes because you’re all about doing it yourself Steph and giving it a try and then sharing it with us. So, let us know how that goes. I’m also really excited that you did the Dutch panel, we do that a lot and a lot of functional medicine doctors do. So I’m so glad you did. Was there something specific on the results that you knew to go ahead and change these fats?
Stephanie Greunke 5:40
Yeah, well, the two big things that my Dutch panel showed me was that I had high levels of DHEA. And I have had low to normal adrenal output. And so although my cortisol output was folowing the normal curve where it goes, it’s elevated in the morning, and it gradually lowers throughout the day. And there’s a little bit spike mid morning, the cortisol awakening response, like that’s normal. Mine was following that curve, but it was very, very low on the normal. And so working on my overall stress management is going to be really important for working on my hormones. But also I have been following a moderately high protein intake lately. And that was something that I was doing for body composition purposes. And also because I am weightlifting quite a bit. And I really wanted that extra protein to help with muscle building and it has, but too much protein in general can contribute to higher levels of DHEA, as can high stress. So kind of working on those two things is like okay, where can I maybe cut down the amount of protein I was eating, I was eating well over 100 grams, like maybe 120 grams, which is is high. It’s not absurd, but it is high. So cutting down a little bit of protein and then incorporating more stress reducing behaviors throughout my my lifestyle will help with that.
Elana Roumell 6:58
I love it. Excellent treatment plan for yourself.
Stephanie Greunke 7:03
Doctor approved. Yeah, I actually came up with it myself. And then I ran it past my the naturopathic doctor that ordered the lab. And she agreed that that was great. So right, yeah, maybe I’ll take pictures and kind of share what that looks like. But I’m loving it. So far, my body is feeling good. I have already noticed like less bloating, and my skin is really shining and look looking great. And that’s it’s only been about five days.
Elana Roumell 7:25
Honestly, Steph, your skin’s always glowing and shining. I love your face, FYI I love your dimples are my favorite thing. Anyway, I’ll go ahead and share what I did to nouish myself. So actually, this is interesting, I’m going to share something about my pregnancy. And it’s actually not very nourishing, it’s actually been incredibly irritating. But the reason why it’s nourishing is because I was very empowered by my choice. So that’s what I want to share with you. So I’m when we’re recording this, I’m 26 weeks pregnant, which means that it’s time for me to monitor my glucose. So how exciting. Now standard conventional practices, they offer the GT test, they offer this drink that is just so full of sugar, 50 grams straight sugar drink that you drink, and then you get your blood test monitor to see how the blood functions in your in your blood, and then how effectively it goes into your cells, right. So then they check blood sugar and insulin and all that good activity. So it’s a very good test to monitor gestational diabetes. And I think that is a very important thing to track. However, in many of us, and I know Steph included, when we eat really healthy and we don’t eat a lot of sugar in our diet, these very high spikes of the sugar load really can throw off our body can make us feel pretty yucky. And it can actually cause abnormal labs that will actually can scare you. So Steph, in your podcast, you were a guest on Mindpump, which was an amazing episode. So for the listeners, if you haven’t listened to it, it is well worth it. Steph, you did an amazing job. It was such a great episode, you actually went through this whole process and talked a lot more in depth. So moms go over there to listen about it. But I just didn’t want to go through that process, I had no desire to do it, my midwife gave me the option instead to track my blood sugar through a glucose monitor. So it’s this little device that I have to essentially take my blood sugar readings four times a day. So it entails pricking my finger, putting some blood on a test strip, buying this cute little compact calculator thing called a glucomiter. And now I take my blood sugar four times a day, once when I wake up, so it’s fasting, and then one hour after each meal that I eat throughout the day. And I need to do this for seven days straight, which is a lot of time in my opinion. My first pregnancy I only did it for three days, I guess the midwife group that I worked with only wanted three days, this midwifery group once seven days. And so it’s interesting in the sense that now I get to monitor my blood sugar. So it’s been kind of a cool experience, just to see is, ‘Wow, that bowl of I don’t know, oats, really affected by blood sugar way more than that protein smoothie.’ And so I just I think it’s kind of a neat I you know, time and experience for us women to be empowered and to really track our blood sugar. And it’s also annoying. So I understand why people do not do it. But I just wanted to share my experience that, overall, as time consuming and as like kind of annoying it is to set my my alarm after every meal and track everything that I’m eating. I’m learning a lot. I think it’s a really cool experience to do. I think three days would be a lot more manageable, but I’m in it, I’m doing it. And I just feel empowered that I got to choose what I wanted to do with my blood glucose testing.
Stephanie Greunke 10:56
I love that. Yeah, I did the same thing and actually had the same advice from my midwives one set told me three days other told me seven. I mean, it is really fascinating finding out what food does in your body because oatmeal, even if you have the set amount, like 50 grams of carbohydrates coming from oatmeal, and your body is going to be different than how it is in my body for a variety of reasons. So I’m curious, what have you found? Like, what are some foods that you have consumed where you check your blood sugar, and you’re like, ‘I had no idea it would spike that high.’
Elana Roumell 11:27
So I’ve only been doing it for two days. So I can’t actually give you a good seven day profile. But I was so surprised last night, I had lentil soup, which I rarely eat lentils. It was actually only because it was Sunday night and it was Anthony’s turn to cook and there was like no food he wanted to cook and I was like, ‘Are you kidding me?’ So he made lentil soup, because we literally just had some leftover from like a previous meal like months ago. So we just defrosted it. And I was like just serve this, because that was easy for him to do. And anyway, I enjoyed it. I like lentil soup, I just don’t eat very often. And my blood sugar was much higher after that meal at one hour postprandial, than it was with my dinner the previous night, which was more so like, like a protein. And I don’t even know I have to actually wrote it down. I think it was like chicken roasted carrots and a salad or so you know, like it was like something very basic. And so I was actually just a little bit surprised it wasn’t high, it was still in the normal levels. But I was really running high 90s, low hundreds, even an hour post printer, which I actually think is a little bit low. And then it spiked up to 115 after the lentil soup and hour later and I just didn’t expect it because lentils have so much fiber, I just for some reason expected it to be the same. So I hope that was an okay example. Otherwise, everything else has been the same very consistent.
Stephanie Greunke 12:45
Well in 115 isn’t even high.
Elana Roumell 12:47
I know, it’s zero concern. It’s just more comparative to the other meals that I was having. It was in the high 90s. That was the first time it actually went above 100. So I actually think my blood sugar’s running a little low. But anyway, again, I’m only on two days. But this is another reason why it’s very good insight. And the reason why I do think seven days is better than three days is yesterday was a weekend, today’s now a work day, the next day is going to be another work day, your stress levels are different, your exercise is going to be different, just your food, not only choices, but the routine of eating food just changes based on the day. So I think getting a good idea of a seven day snapshot is actually a much better prediction of overall blood sugar than the three days so as reluctant as I am to continue. I’m actually happy that will have all these numbers.
Stephanie Greunke 13:40
Yeah, absolutely. No, I think that’s that was an important thing my midwife told me to like make sure one of the days that you track is a weekend. And I see that too with like food logging. If I’m looking at somebody’s food, I’m like, ‘Okay, great. Like I would love to see a food diary during the week. But show me what actually happens on the weekend.’
Elana Roumell 13:57
Yes, I totally agree. Alright, well, let’s go ahead and jump in. We could talk about nourishing ourselves like forever, which I actually find to be really fun. But let’s go ahead and jump in, because we have two episodes to recap today. So we’ll try to condense them. But whatever, we always have so much fun stuff to talk about. First, let’s talk about the one with Nedra on boundaries, because I’m as such a huge fan of boundaries. I know we’ve talked about this a lot. And it’s just so much like fun for me. I know Steph and I, we often just call each other for fun, because we’re such good friends. And we’ll we’ll talk about you know, boundaries and helping each other practice those in our lives. So I just think that it’s going to be fun to talk about this and Nedra had such great insights. She brought up specifically how boundaries can change during different stages of life, which I totally agree with. So maybe someone gets a new job or you move homes, or definitely I would say when you have another kid joining the family, which I’m about to go through. So I wanted to pick your brain a little bit to see how you changed your boundaries and your needs. When you had your second Leo, you know, I could take any insights right now since I only have one child and I know it’s going to be completely different when I have two, so can you maybe help me and then help other listeners who are also in my same position?
Stephanie Greunke 15:08
Yeah, sure. Well, I’m an amateur, when it comes to setting boundaries – it is not something that comes natural to me, it’s very uncomfortable to me, but the more that I play with it and explore it, the more I learned to love it and having you to to bounce ideas off of and you’re so strong and boundary setting, I think you’ll do great for sure when baby number two comes. But I think some of it also naturally just has to shift, because when you have a second child coming into your your family, then the other person has to take the lead. So if you have one baby, just one person needs to focus on the kid. But if you have the baby that you’re nursing, and then the toddler is running out the front door, like the person has to step up, right, or it forced Brian to take care of Otto a little bit more, so I could tend to Leo. And then he looks learned and he got comfortable with things that maybe he wasn’t forced to do or required to do before because I just took care of that. Changing diapers for one, like he really didn’t change a whole lot of diapers, because I could handle that with one child. And I didn’t really ask for the help. But when I was busy with Leo, then he was forced to kind of take care of Otto, and do those type of things. So I think some of it naturally just comes out of demand, you have to divide and conquer.
I think sometimes we just have to overestimate how much help will need. And I think identifying what you’re going to need help with in the postpartum period is really important to help you set boundaries, because you can’t establish a boundary without understanding what you truly need. And I kind of wanted to give a couple of examples of what this could look like when it comes to having another kid in the picture or even just having your first child in the picture, because we do require a whole lot of help. So you know, even with boundary setting around food, so making sure that we are on the same page with what we are going to consume during the week, who’s going grocery shopping, who’s going to help kind of clean up and making sure that it feels like it is a working agreement for both of you. And sometimes we can just step up and we can take all of the work for doing something and it it is a two person job. So I think the first step is understanding what you need boundaries around like going out and being with friends to is really important. So I think sometimes we can just want to stay in the house, or we’re afraid to ask the other person for help so that we can go to the gym, or we can do the things that make us feel good, go out for a Ladies Night. And so really having that conversation about, I love being around baby, but I think we both need to spend time out of the house, we both need to spend time with other people and figuring out what that could look like with your specific family situation.
Elana Roumell 17:54
I love it. I totally agree. And I think the hardest part of it sometimes is figuring out what our needs are. Right? And I think oftentimes you almost like have a really bad fight or breakdown or whatever to realize, ‘Alright, I’m not getting what I need. And now let’s discover it. And now that’s going to create the new boundary.’ Do you agree with that?
Stephanie Greunke 18:12
Yeah, I think so. I think sometimes when we’re having those fights, if we look at it a different way, like, ‘We’re fighting over, who’s going grocery shopping, and we’re fighting over the dishes, Oh, that’s interesting,’ and kind of spinning it like, okay, we’re fighting. Maybe this is an area where we could set up some boundaries. Or if it’s like with the grandparents, that’s one thing that she mentioned of grandparents giving your kids sugar like, ‘Oh, this is a constant source of stress is a constant argument for us. Okay, we need to set up boundaries here.’
Elana Roumell 18:40
I completely agree. And I’m actually going to talk a little bit about that later, I wanted to make a note because that is such a big deal.
Stephanie Greunke 18:46
Yeah. So let’s kind of move on to how this works in your family, because we talked about how you’re so good at it. And I know, this is something that you and Anthony are currently working on with your Sunday check in meetings. So I’m curious how that been going and has this helps you figure out how you need to get more help and where you need to get more help?
Elana Roumell 19:06
Okay, Steph, I’m such a huge fan of these weekly meetings. And it’s the only reason why I’m so excited, I’m going to take the time to really talk about it. Because if this can even help one listener, I’d be thrilled. So essentially, things have been getting a little bit more stressful. As you know, I’m pregnant, I’m working so much things are just getting busier, Avivas needs are getting just, you know, she needs more attention. And I just know, gosh, we’re only going to get busier with a second baby. And so I’ve just noticed, we’ve been fighting a little bit more just, just getting on each other’s nerves with little things. And so we decided, we’re going to hire a coach who’s really going to help us over the next three months, we’re actually super excited, we start in a couple weeks anyway, but that’s just a side.
But before that, we’ve also decided on our own that we’re going to do these weekly check in meetings. And I mentioned a little bit about that on a prior episode during my nourish yourself segment. But essentially, we meet every week, we acknowledge each other for the wins. We give feedback to each other on the things that we weren’t very happy with. And then we go through our to do list and we essentially just assign who’s responsible for why. And we also visit last week’s to do list and we acknowledge each other for what got done. And then we do scheduling and things like that. It’s essentially like a business meeting, you know, because it’s a business to kind of like run a house. And so we’re both managing it together. So we need to check in with each other. But it leaves us feeling so empowered. That one, we’re checking in with each other number two, that we’re getting things done and an opportunity to acknowledge each other for the things that they’ve done for the family. But I would say even more so what it’s helped us prevent are a lot of fights midweek.
So for example, it could be as little as this is funny. I didn’t like how he closed his coffee container like the bed is so funny. I don’t drink coffee, he likes coffee. And so I always go and I get grounds of coffee for him. When you open up a bag and you have to, you know, ground grind the beans, I just put tape all over the bag so it stays close. So when he opens up the bag, and then he tries to close the bag, when I come down in the morning, it’s like literally half open like it’s just going to fall out everywhere because he just didn’t put it away properly. So one morning I came downstairs and the bag actually tipped over and coffee grounds went all over the floor. And now my dogs after it, Avivas after it, and now right before work and a busy morning, I’m now left to clean it up because he didn’t pack it correctly. So I was so upset, I was gonna I took a picture of the bag, and I wanted to text him just to be like, ‘What did you do? Like, how can you do this to me?’ Or you know, or not to me, but how can you like put it away like this, and I held myself back stuff, it was so hard for me. And I was like, hold on, this is going to come up on our Sunday meeting. And I I cleaned it up, I put it in a Ziploc bag, you know, like I made it so it wouldn’t fall out again. And at our meeting, I was able show him the picture. And we both just cracked up. We made it such a funny thing. Like he looked at it. He just laughed, and I laughed. And he was like, ‘I’m so sorry. I actually thought I put it together properly. And instead in the moment I would have just totally been so like bitchy to him, you know, I’m sorry to use that word like it’s, I would have just been like snappy in the middle of his work day. And he would have been like, why she making such a big deal.
So it was just one minor example. But those are things that can cause like a little tiff between us that I was like, ‘Fine, let’s set it aside for Sunday.’ And I just think it’s so important to have these time set aside to just check in and to do these things to let things burn off, instead of always reacting right in the moment. And Nedra actually talked a lot about this. And this is why I want to bring it back to this episode is she just she really stressed how important is to talk before you get to the blow up state. So a lot of us just tend to suppress and suppress and suppress. So we see the coffee thing not done, we see that the dishes are in the dishwasher, blah blah blah, the laundry isn’t done. And we just keep on like not talking about it, whether you think you don’t have time to talk about it, whether there’s just not the space to do it. But if you have like a designated time set aside to do it, and literally we’llsometimes sit there and be like, hold on, let me think about the week, did anything come up, I take notes, he just kind of thinks about it. But it’s just such a great opportunity to just get it all out so that you’re never really like just blowing up again. So I’ve just loved it so much.
Stephanie Greunke 23:30
Yeah, and I love that you’re able to do that and it works for you. And I think when we’re talking about letting it build up, it may even be beneficial for some people, like Brian and I do this, we do more of like a daily download. And then we do a weekly download. And so for me, I wouldn’t be able to like hold on to that frustration about the coffee thing until the weekend or a week from then if that’s when our set date was. So for us, we kind of do just like a five minute or 10 minute thing every day after when the kids go to bed is like, ‘Hey, what is what was our win for the day? Or what are we grateful for? What do we appreciate about each other?’ We start with that. And then we kind of talk about things that have frustrated us or things that are on our mind and close up with, ‘Okay, so what is tomorrow looking like?’ So for us, it almost works to do it in shorter chunks daily, and then have a bigger one on the weekend when we have a little bit more time.
Elana Roumell 24:22
Okay, that’s cool. And I actually wish that worked for me, but it doesn’t.And I appreciate you offering that because again, every relationship, every family dynamic is different. So what works for me won’t work for you and vice versa. So any listener out there is like, awesome, try Steph’s daily check-ins, if that doesn’t work, do my weekly check-ins. Or like maybe for you, it’s every month, I mean, right? Everyone’s a little different. And I think in in our regard, that would actually be harder for Anthony. He doesn’t like that much feedback that frequently. And I think I would actually do well with that. But he’s not as available. I think that’s the thing is he’s so active in his work. And he’s such an athlete, like he’s so physically and emotionally like invested with his clients. At the end of the day, he’s just not available to me for him to hear that feedback. That’s why for us, it just works to do weekly, but who knows, maybe in a year from now it changes or maybe with the second child we needed every day. Yeah, I don’t know. Yeah, but that that’s great. I’m glad you brought that up.
Stephanie Greunke 25:24
Yeah, and just keeping things open minded and seeing what works and trying it. We tried the weekly but then it that wasn’t working. So we tried daily, and that seems to work. So yeah, there’s no right or wrong, just however it can fit into your schedule, so you’re not building that resentment.
Elana Roumell 25:36
But you do feel like it’s been helping you guys too, because it has helped us so much.
Stephanie Greunke 25:40
Yeah, it really does. Because I tend to hold on to things and then I explode. But this helps me not do that.
Elana Roumell 25:46
Perfect. I love it. Yeah, for me, if I keep it in my notes section, it’s fine. But I just loved how that coffee picture just turned into such like a moment of laughter, like if you could laugh about these things that really helps ease the feedback, you know.
Stephanie Greunke 26:00
Right. So you weren’t able to do that until it was like past that, right?
Elana Roumell 26:03
Oh, for sure. I was not laughing for a couple of days. And what was helpful was like my nanny was actually there. So I got to like vent to her. I was like, ‘Oh, my God, he doesn’t believe he did this, you know.’ So that was actually therapeutic for me. But I didn’t have to do it to him. She was like, ‘Oh, yeah, my husband would do that same. So I do it.’
Alright, let’s transition to something else, because there’s so many cool topics here. So I thought it was very interesting when Nedra said that most women setting boundaries, it doesn’t actually come very naturally to them. And I think she brought up a point that they never really got it modeled from their mothers as being examples and which is sad. But you know, we’re all struggling with this. We’re all trying to do our best. So I know our moms have done their best. But you know what I really thought about it, I realized my mom actually did do a really great job setting boundaries and being an example to me, which is why perhaps boundaries have just become easier for me or maybe just like more natural for me to to adopt. And I know that you’re so honest Steph, you always share how boundaries are a little bit harder and expressing your needs don’t come so naturally. So I’m just kind of curious, because I know there’s so many listeners that can really empathize with you is, what do you do to continuously practice to break the cycle, so that you get to be an example for your boys so that your boys can grow up with a mom who feel who’s like a strong example for them and a role model of someone who can express their boundaries and needs?
Stephanie Greunke 27:29
Yeah, I mean, I wasn’t modeled this at all growing up. I mean, my mom, she’s still is definitely a yes person. And she would do anything for anybody. And that’s such a beautiful characteristic about her. And I love her to death, but at the same time, that is, it’s hard, because I wasn’t modeled that. And I don’t have a sister, you know, I have a brother. And I think the people around me right now at work, my co-workers are definitely better at setting boundaries. So they’re teaching me, but for 30% plus years of my life, I haven’t had that modeled. So what I’ve had to do personally, is almost kind of start with baby steps to get comfortable with having confrontation and setting boundaries. And so it could be something like just the littlest thing like, for example, the coffee thing that could be a small thing is like, ‘Oh, can you please make sure that you seal the coffee back.’ like that could be a small thing in my book, and then working up to larger conversations that are harder around maybe a family issues with like how my parents approach sugar with my kids, or conversations with my boss. And so, sometimes face to face is really uncomfortable. And so finding ways to have those conversations or start those conversations, maybe it is a text message to my husband saying, ‘Hey, look, I would really like to talk to you about something that’s been on my mind tonight, can we set aside time, so he’s mentally prepared to have that conversation. And then I would truly write down on a piece of paper, what I wanted to get across in aconcise way to get that across, where he doesn’t feel attacked. Because sometimes if things have been bottling up, and I haven’t been setting my boundaries, I just unload everything. And that’s not always the best way to go. But if I write it down, I’m prepared for that conversation that can really help. With emails, sometimes I’m able to get what’s on my mind out in an email a lot better than having a phone conversation with somebody. And so that those things can have kind of help. But I think one win at a time helps build confidence in yourself. And I think having some quiet time can also help you figure out what you need. So I’ve been trying to, as much as I love podcast, you know, go outside on a walk, just having it be quiet, and really getting to know myself and what I need and feeling competent, that who I am is okay. And I deserve to have these needs met a mind has been really important. Because like we mentioned, if you don’t know what you need, you don’t know who you are, how can you possibly ask for the help to get what you need?
Elana Roumell 30:00
I love that you said that that last thing because I walk often too, that’s both of our like one of our favorite I think activities. And it’s true the days that I listen to podcast, I don’t get that quiet time to really reevaluate and assess and kind of organize things. But when it’s like, ‘Okay, no podcast today, let’s just be with myself.’ actually, I find that that reduces anxiety tremendously. It helps me just organize. And by the end of the walk, I’m like, ‘Oh, I got this. Like I’m so much more clear now.’ So I think that that’s a great tip as well.
Stephanie Greunke 30:29
Yeah, you know, yoga also really does that for me. And yeah, just having that quiet time and like really feeling your body and feeling the emotion and feeling the strength. And maybe that’s not yoga, maybe it’s weightlifting for you. But something where you’re just quiet, so much comes up that you can learn from.
Elana Roumell 30:46
Great, yup, I totally agree. Just that quiet time. Very good.
Stephanie Greunke 30:50
Alright, so there is the saying how you do anything is how you do everything. And I think that can hold so true when it comes to setting our balance boundaries. If we aren’t setting good boundaries with our husband, you may not be able to set good boundaries with your kids, and your parents, and your bosses, and your co workers, and your friends, and everyone around you. So do you agree with that statement? How you do anything is how you do everything?
Elana Roumell 31:15
Yes, I love that statement so much. It’s so great that you’re using that. And I completely agree it has to do with the boundaries because it bleeds into every relationship. So personally, I’m kind of struggling a little bit with my father in law. So you brought this up a little bit with your parents on how much he’s feeding candy to my nieces. So he’s not yet doing it with Aviva. But every time he’s with my niece’s, literally, they have like a different candy bar. And I’m like, ‘This is not okay, you know, I can’t have this around Aviva.’ So if he thinks he’s going to do this with Aviva, which he likely will because this is his habit, then he can’t see her. So I talked to Anthony about it just the other day, and he was so surprised, but a little bit impressed with me. Because I said to him, I’m like, ‘Look, this is such a strong value for me that I would literally let him know that he cannot see Aviva unless he’s at our house and eating the food that we’re going to provide her. And then he’s going to lose his privilege, which sucks like for everyone.’ And he goes, ‘Wow, you would really say that to my dad.’ And I was like, ‘I will 100% say that to your dad. I’m not concerned about that at all. Because the thing that is so important to me is, it’s not that I care about candy consumption here and there. But if he’s going to watch her, let’s say, I don’t know, two times a week, let’s say and twice a week, she has a different candy bar, that’s too much for me. If he’s going to go out and get her a candy bar, I don’t know, once a month, I’m not as concerned about it. And he needs to at least respect our wishes.’ Like, that’s all I’m very clear about. And these are actually very two separate issues in my mind is we have our own set of desires and values and he has his own set, he enjoys getting the kids candy, he enjoys that experience, he wants to do that. So that’s okay with me, but it has to be in moderation.
And this is again, Nedra said this, which I loved her, she said she goes that’s on them, like that’s their issues, like that’s for them to process if I’m questioning what they think may be healthy for your child, versus what you think is healthy for your child. And you need to really separate those because it is okay. And he can have his opinion that he thinks sugar every day is okay. And you can have your opinion that you don’t think sugar every day is ok. But once a month is a fine treat, and he has to respect your request. Otherwise, he doesn’t get to, like hang out with them. You know, I mean, that’s kind of what you as a parent get to choose. And I just find that to be very powerful. And I also find that to be in a very compassionate approach. So it can sound like a little bit harsh. But in all honesty, I think you could communicate that in a very loving and a very gentle way to let him know like, this is how important it is to me. And I’m not saying you can never see her, by all means, we want you to see her. But if you don’t feel like you can fulfill on my request of not feeding her candy, then you’re going to have to see her at our house where the food is available and I know what you’re feeding her. You get to choose, I’m not gonna say you can’t see or I’m just gonna let you know, it’s got to be in a controlled environment, except for whatever, once a month or whatever. And then let him sit with that, you know, I mean, that doesn’t affect me. But I also can really acknowledge that for some people, that conversation would be very hard to have. What do you think about that Steph? Because I think for you, maybe it’d be harder. But for me, it would just come pretty easy.
Stephanie Greunke 34:42
Yeah, I mean, it’s definitely a hard conversation to have, because you don’t know where the person’s coming from. I mean, maybe they don’t think that candy nutritionally is that big of deal, right? Like, everybody knows that candy is sugar and it’s not good to eat pounds of every day. But maybe they don’t understand like what that looks like, as far as how you know, maybe Aviva comes to associate that person with candy or that candy with a good time or, you know, just kind of like figuring out, are they offering that candy because that is how they know how to show love, or they feel like that is something really nice to do to Aviva and then explaining ‘Well, you know, I get where you’re coming from that that’s how you’re showing love. But Aviva also really just likes spending time with you and you running around and chasing Aviva is just as special to her as that special treat that you want to give.’ So kind of really understanding where they’re coming from, is it because they don’t understand nutritionally why you’re choosing to do this? Or are they trying to show love in their certain way. But I think just being really honest, and like letting them know that you want them to spend time with Aviva, and you love them spending time with Aviva. But this is something that you’re not joking around with. Sometimes I think when it comes to food and candy with other people, it’s kind of like, ‘Oh, like, yeah, they said no candy, but we’re gonna they give you a little taste,’ it’s kind of more playful versus like, ‘No, this is what we truly want,’ setting your foot down strongly like that, I think is important just to make it very clear that this isn’t something that you’re willing to compromise on. And it’s it’s not something you’re being playful with. It’s a true requirement.
Elana Roumell 36:18
Yeah, so I definitely agree with being firm. But actually, what I don’t necessarily agree is trying to get in their world, and try to help them see it in a different way. Because it’s actually such a deep down emotional, like, sometimes unconscious way that they’re already being, I don’t feel like that’s my job to talk to a 70 plus year old person about.
Stephanie Greunke 36:41
Right, it doens’t have to be a long conversation, you don’t have to try to change them. I just like I sometimes just like to kind of just maybe mention it, but you don’t have to like she said, it’s not like you have to completely change them. But it might be interesting to see how they respond to that. And if they don’t respond that, then it’s not your work.
Elana Roumell 36:57
Yeah. And so then then I agree with that, I just wouldn’t turned into like a therapy session. Now if it was like my patient, then we could talk about it like that. But like, in this regard, I almost think coming at it from like, this is what’s important to me, it actually doesn’t even matter what the request is. Because at the end of the day, you’re the parent. So you get to make those choices, which is really cool. And I’m open to hearing their opinions, and I can still have my opinion. But at the end of the day, if they can’t respect my parenting ways, then they don’t necessarily get the privilege of like, not that they can’t be in their life. Of course, they could be in their life and I want them to be in their life, but not necessarily that, it’s about trust. That’s what Nedra was also talking about is like, I need to trust that when my child is with you, and I’m not there, that you’re respecting my request. So candy aside, it could be anything ,you know, it could be, I don’t know where you’re taking them, or where how long, wearing a helmet. It could be anything. So it doesn’t even have to be nutrition. But this is what’s important to me. So if I can trust that you’re going to do that awesome, man, spend as much time as you want. But if you do something and either are not telling me or if I find out, I’m going to lose trust in that will that’s going to make me feel like I can’t just send my child with you. Because now I’m always going to question so I think it really comes down to that, moreso than the actual topic, whether you agree with it or not.
So anyway, I just find this fascinating. I think that it all starts with us just practicing again with our spouses, since they’re like our biggest teammate in life, and you’re with them all the time. boundaries with their kid boundaries with their bosses boundaries, that are co workers boundaries, even with friends. You know, there’s, it’s not there’s not like a negative connotation with boundaries. It’s just being very expressive and honoring what you want, and what you need, and trusting that the other person can be there and and find that what you want and need is important to them because they care about you.
Stephanie Greunke 38:53
Yeah, I’m always just really inspired when I hear friends of mine set boundaries. I mean, especially when it’s women, I feel like women everywhere hard time with in general. But if a friend does set a boundary with me and something or they let me know their boundary with their partner, I’m like, ‘Whoa,’ it’s inspiring. I don’t think they’re like being selfish at all.
Elana Roumell 39:12
I agree. And on that note, as well, we’ll move on to play-based therapy. Yeah, we could talk about this all day, I remember years ago, I used to actually almost like coach my friends in practicing saying no. And because it was hard for them. And I was like, ‘Look, if you can’t say no to me, I actually can’t trust when I asked you something to either say yes or no, and know that it’s like an authentic answer. So that’s not going to work for me, I need to know that if you could do something, and you say yes, I don’t have to feel guilty about it. And if you say no, then I just know, great. You can’t do that for me.’ And so then every time they would say no and you could see, they would like hesitate. I’d be like, ‘Congratulations!’ And I’d be like, ‘Man, that sucks for me, because they just said no.’ But who cares? Like I much prefer that kind of relationship. And that was important to me, that was kind of one of my boundaries of having a good friend is I need to trust that you could say no, when you really don’t want to do something. And when you say yes, that you authentically can do it. So it’s just all great and beautiful and takes practice and takes definitely two people to practice that kind of stuff.
Stephanie Greunke 40:15
Yep. And circles back to how you do anything is how you do everything. So it will trickle into all different relationships in your life. Yeah, so let’s jump into play-based therapy then. So I really enjoyed my chat with Jillian, she’s just so full of joy and wisdom. And I love how she talked about how moments of connections with with your kids don’t have to be long. But even things like looking into their eyes or holding their hand can really help them feel important and build that connection. So what did you think about the interview with Jillian? And what are some of the things that you do with Aviva?
Elana Roumell 40:54
Okay, I love this too. I mean, it was like such a contrast between the other episode that you did the interview with, but it’s just I just think that this concept is so neat to do play-based therapy. So one of the things that she did talk about right was that special time and how even those little bits of connection so like staring them in the eye or rubbing their back or just giving them a hug is actually so incredibly important that that that those moments of attention are some of the most important to fill their buckets, so to speak. And what was one of my absolute favorite takeaways from actually Nedra brought this up, and I’m going to bring it into Jillian’s interview was Nedra said, ‘When a mom is dehydrated, she can’t feed her child.’ and I loved that line, I thought that was such a compelling line. If a mom is not well hydrated, she has nothing to give. And that’s how you do everything is how you do anything, right. So that can be actually in all aspects of life is if you aren’t filling yourself, you just can’t give to others. It’s selfish not to nourish yourself, to be honest, because you can give so much more when you do. But on this point is I find that if I’m kind of dehydrated in life, I don’t connect as well with my loved ones, including Aviva, I’m shorter, I’m snappier. You know, it’s like those days that you’re just like depleted, you’re overworked, you’re overstressed and it’s just, you don’t have it in you. And then she doesn’t get that kind of connection, and she feels it. Like, I see how she can act out or something goes off, she can feel it. And then the days that I’m really well hydrated and really full and I can give to her, those short little moments of connection are just like they’re easier for me there. It’s easier for me to stop and just be with her. And it’s easier for me to just connect with her. And I just think that is so important for us moms to always remember that those little bits of connection are actually the most important things that we could do with our kids. But it really starts with us staying well hydrated.
Stephanie Greunke 42:52
And I think you know that literally you can take that if you’re dehydrated, you can’t nurse your little one, right?
Elana Roumell 42:58
That’s why you can’t feed them, I just loved that, I will always carry that throughout my life. Now I just thought that was so brilliant, a great metaphor.
Stephanie Greunke 43:06
You know, one area that I find I’m becoming dehydrated, like a red flag, and other people might relate to this too, is my connection with friends. So if I’m in a really busy season, or I’m starting to just give too much of myself to my kids or my work, I don’t have phone calls with my friends as often, they might send me text messages, but I give them like a one sentence response. I might forget about text messages from my friends for days. And so I’m like, I can know I have been focusing way too much on work or other things. And I need to take something off my plate, because I love connecting with my friends and I love even spending like a walk and talk with them versus, you know, walking or like catching up on work
Elana Roumell 43:55
That’s great Steph, that you’ve now already become aware that that’s kind of like a sign. That’s great. Yeah, I think oftentimes knowing those kind of signs to then kind of trigger that, ‘Okay, I gotta get rehydrated. Like, I gotta drink more water, you know, or whatever that is your waters just being with your friends. ‘And you know, everyone’s water is going to be different. Yeah, it’s great. Yeah, I love it. I use that metaphor, just so brilliant. I just thought that was so cool. Anyway, there’s so many other topics to talk about. But so I’m going to shift into a different topic because I loved how Jillian recommended staying calm during tantrums, and how these are actually vulnerable times for our kids to express themselves. And they can be ugly moments. I mean, obviously, no one likes tantrums. And really, our kids don’t want to have tantrums either, but it’s clearly a very vulnerable time for them. But these are times that we really need to connect with our kids because we want them to feel confident in sharing their inner worlds with us. And I loved how she said that her their inner worlds because this is how they’re expressing themselves. So I’m kind of curious, from your point of view now with two boys how you navigate this. Because if both kids are throwing tantrums, how do you best stay calm, because you kind of have to give attention now to both of them, and it could be in different ways, they may have different needs. But the first thing is that the mom has to stay calm so that they can navigate this. So any tips there? So as I prepare for my two?
Stephanie Greunke 45:18
Yeah, well, I have been lucky enough to be blessed with a marine as a husband. And so I feel like Marines and military person personnel in general, they are trained to stay calm under very stressful situations. And so I’ve actually learned a lot from just getting that feedback and watching my husband stay calm during tantrums, too, because I think my I would just like start crying with them, or like start yelling, just to like, get my point across. Like, I don’t know what I would do. But I see Brian reacting very calmly. And so what I do, especially when they’re both crying, or they both need something at the same time, which is really really hard for somebody that is a people pleaser like myself, and I’ve really had to like work through it. I identify as a people pleaser, but I can’t always please people at the same time, especially not kids. And it’s not necessarily healthy to respond to their needs right away all the time. Right, they’ve got to work through things themselves. And so when they first start crying, the first thing that I do is I take a deep breath. And I know this may sound like wild and farfetched for some people. But it really truly does work for me because I have to tap into that parasympathetic state. And so I’ll do just like a key, a couple of key deep breaths right away. So they’re both screaming, Leo needs a diaper, Otto’s screaming about whatever. I just kind of breathe into it. And I respond to the priority need first. And I think that’s something that we intuitively know like, what is the priority is somebody going to get her is somebody really in trouble is somebody physically bleeding. And so I take a deep breath, and then I respond to the immediate need first, if Leo is just having a tantrum, because he wanted a toy that Otto had, I let them work through that, you know, letting them know that I’m there. But I can’t give way too much energy to that situation, because it will completely drain me. So if you know they’re playing with the toy, Leo’s upset that he didn’t get the toy, but Otto somehow got hurt and he’s bleeding now. Well, okay, my attention has to go there. And I, I trust that Leo knows that I am there for him and that he is safe, because of that strength we built the other days, right. So they can have a tantrum. And if you don’t respond to them, it’s okay, because you’ve built that attachment in so many other ways, by holding their hand by looking into their eyes. And so I think just breathing, making sure that my cup is full, and that I have taken time away from them is also a really important thing as I find myself starting to yell, if I am at the verge of being completely depleted if I haven’t gone to the gym if that my blood sugar is too low, if I am feeling overwhelmed, and I haven’t set my boundaries. So those are a couple things that I do.
Elana Roumell 48:05
Great Steph, and I think it kind of goes back to when we’re not full, it is just so much easier to react and we are full, it’s so much easier to take the space to be like, ‘Okay, I got this, it’s still not easy, but it’s just so much easier to do.’ So I think that’s great. And you’re kind of lucky. I mean, honestly, with a Marine, you kind of really do see by example how he just stays calm. And it really makes a big effect, I think with the with the child and their tantrum and how long the tantrum last.
Stephanie Greunke 48:33
Yeah, I think yeah, I think getting both partners on the same page is really important to I mean, this is easier said than done in some situations, but kind of like talking to your partner, maybe on your weekly check ins or your daily downloads, figuring out like, how do we want to respond to that. And some of its going to be just as how you normally react. So it’s going to have to be something you practice staying calm. But you’ll see the rewards. I mean, it’ll be very clear. If you start screaming or yelling are hitting back. It’s not going to resolve the situation as quickly as if you stay calm and really trying to be with them during that tantrum.
Elana Roumell 49:08
Yeah, I agree. Completely. Cool. Thanks for sharing that. I mean, I have a lot to look forward to.
Stephanie Greunke 49:13
Yes, you do. I’m like so excited to see with two kids, especially with a boy to I think it’ll be so fun.
Elana Roumell 49:20
Totally, I agree.
Stephanie Greunke 49:22
Alright, so let’s kind of finish up. I know, Jillian talked about her work, which was mostly geared towards trauma and helping kids process trauma. And she can’t do the regular type of talk therapy with a young kid that she could with an older adult just because they don’t have the words or they may not understand how they’re feeling and emotion. So instead, she does more play-based work. And I know you shared about the trauma you went through with losing your brother suddenly when you were young. So did you ever seek out play therapy? Or how did you process that event?
Elana Roumell 49:56
Yeah, so I mean, I don’t want to take too much time on this. But I appreciate the question. Because I really thought a lot about it. As I was listening to her talk about just the philosophy with play based therapy and access into these kids healing and processes. And because of her extensive work with trauma, I just started thinking about my own situation. And I remember when I was young, I was nine years old, when my brother passed, suddenly he was seven years old, he died of sudden death asthma, I now see it as somewhat of a gift that he’s completely inspired my work. I mean, he’s absolutely one of my biggest inspirations in why I’ve become a doctor and why I love helping kids and parents.
But I will say as far as my personal experience, one is, my parents did a lot of putting me in talk therapy. That was what they knew I didn’t get play based therapy. And yes, I think that was valuable. However, now that I look back on it, I do remember at the very young age of nine, I stopped playing, I actually I remember I stopped watching cartoons, I stopped even wanting to like just be like, adventurous like, I just I wanted I needed to take life seriously. Like when that happened to me, I like really became an adult, I started worrying about my parents, I started wanting to take care of my siblings, I wanted to be really healthy. So I didn’t die, right. I mean, there was a lot of very rapid maturing during that time, that was much too early for me at that age. And I remember that I in college.
Now I’m like, in my early 20s, I started needing to play more like I realized I was starved of that I didn’t have that everything was just like so serious in my life. And I think play therapy at that time would have been a huge access to healing. And so I was really touched by what Jillian had to offer, because I think I would have been able to process it a lot more. And I think I would have been able to see play as something that was actually important to do healing, and a part of the process that I really just overlooked unconsciously. So I got a lot from Julian’s interview. And I just I hope that by me sharing my story, if there are moms listening who have some traumatic events that of course are either out of your hands or whatever, maybe your second child was a Nick, you baby and you were in the nick you for three months, and your, your older child had to go through that with you. Well, that could be very traumatic for that child, or, God forbid, there was a sudden loss in the family and they, they had a grief through it or even a pet death or I mean, there’s so many things in life that can cause trauma for any individual, whether they’re young or old. But I think specifically, if you can really hone in on how can my child heal through this so that they’re not carrying it through their many, many years of of life. I think play therapy is an incredibly important therapy to consider. And I think listening to Jillian’s interview, she offered great resources to how to find a therapist in your area would be something that is at least worth trying. Because at least I can just share through my own personal experience, I think it would have really helped me tremendously, and I didn’t have that access. So I would love to share that more with other kids who may benefit.
Stephanie Greunke 53:13
Yeah, no, I think that’s great. And it’s something I think also moms, you know, may not realize it or have the capacity to navigate. If they’re dealing with the trauma themselves. I’m thinking like the NICU. You example you gave like, definitely put your oxygen mask on first and navigating that internal trauma. And then, you know, once you are starting to heal and like starting to move on and move forward, then it might be a time where it clicks like, oh, maybe I need to get my little one into therapy too. So it doesn’t have to be I mean, if you’re able to kind of identify it, and everybody seek therapy at the same time, great, but it might just take a little bit longer. And we want to make sure you heal too.
Elana Roumell 53:52
I totally agree. I actually don’t think it’s ever too late, to start there, ever I mean, like I said, I process a lot. I’ve been in college that was over a decade after my brother died, and I still benefited tremendously from that kind of therapy. So I look, I love being doing it. I wish if I had to go backwards, I would have done it sooner or later. But that’s okay. You know, this is my process. And so for your child, yes, you put your oxygen mask on first you take care of what you need. And then when it’s time, you know, you could do it for your child. So I appreciate you mentioning that Steph. Any other takeaways from that episode just to end with because I know we’ve probably going a bit over because we did two different episode recaps. But you know, we could talk about all this stuff all day. But anything else that came to mind that you want to just share with the with the listeners?
Stephanie Greunke 54:40
Yeah, I think the from Nedra, I think just figuring out what you need is going to be so important. Spending time and quiet will help you figure out what’s important and then start with what feels easy for you and build from there to create those boundaries. I think that was like the sum of what I heard from her. For from Jillian, I think what I really took away was that is not the quantity of time that you spend with your child, it’s really about the quality of time that you spend with them and the connection that you make. And this can help reduce a lot of the shame that some moms may feel if there are families may feel if they’re working full time, or if they are really busy with their kids, or maybe their solo parents or a split parents and they only see their child for a certain amount of hours during the day or week. And I think also what was really interesting is that there’s just so many incredible ways that we can heal our bodies from trauma or stress if traditional therapy isn’t for you. So play based therapy, or looking at the different models and offerings that Nadia had when it comes to boundary setting and stress resiliency. I mean, there’s just so many different ways. So, you know, even if the word therapy or going to a counselor feels like it’s a stretch for you, you’re not quite there yet, just doing some mindful based practices can really help. Okay, I love that.
Elana Roumell 56:01
Excellent. I mean, wrap up. The only thing I would actually add to this is mostly about Jillian just because we were on that subject, but I loved how Jillian said, if a child plays out, they don’t have to act out. And I wrote that down to my phone, like I thought that was so cool as I was listening to the podcast. I was like, if a child plays out, they don’t have to act out, and I love this. And I think that the more we can encourage playing, the more we get our kids outside, the more we get our kids just like getting their energy out and moving around and breathing fresh air and getting sunlight and just like getting the play that they need. Because that’s their self expression. I do truly believe that it can reduce those, you know, tantrums or the just disease To be honest, because I think disease especially with our kids can come from some of that stagnation and not being able to fully express themselves in many ways, because it’s already so hard for them to express. So anyway, I just thought that was such a cool line. And I really appreciate did that. So thanks for these two great interviews Steph. I enjoyed both of them very much. And I hope that even this recap was really helpful for some of our listeners.
Stephanie Greunke 57:08
And we hope so too. And let us know what you think. Take a screenshot of yourself listening to this podcast when you’re on a walk or wherever you listen to it, and let us know what you’ve learned from the episode. We love hearing from you. And thanks for listening to today’s show. And don’t forget about our sponsor Four Sigmatic. Elana talked about their charcoal lemonade and that’s one of my favorite products. I actually took it with me when we went on our honeymoon in Cancun because you never know what you’re going to come in contact with when it comes to the food that you’re eating or what you’re drinking when you are in another country. And so I always bring that with me if I’m planning on having a drink somewhere or as I am not feeling so good after a restaurant meal. That charcoal really helps with the toxin breakdown and getting rid of whatever I may have consumed that isn’t not agreeing with my stomach. So make sure you check out foursigmatic.com/wholemamas to get 15% off your order. Or you can just go to their website foursigmatic.com and enter the code WHOLEMAMAS at checkout to get our special deal.
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- How Steph’s boundaries and needs changed when she went from 1 to 2 children
- How Dr. Elana communicates her boundaries/needs with her husband effectively
- What Steph does to continuously practice expressing her needs
- Ways to effectively communicate boundaries in a compassionate way
- What play therapy looks like in our homes
- Tips on staying calm during tantrums
- Why play therapy is especially important after kids go through trauma. Dr. Elana shares her personal story of a traumatic experience as a child.
- Episode 140: Setting Boundaries to Reduce Burnout with Nedra Glover Tawwab MSW, LCSW
- Episode 141: Play Based Therapy for Kids with Jillian Kelly-Wavering MSSW, LCSW, RPT
- The HMHB Weekly Email Series
- Whole Mamas Pregnancy Program
- Dr. Elana’s Med School For Moms
- Dr. Elana’s Medical Center: Nourish Medical Center
- Follow Steph and Elana on Instagram
- Whole Mamas Podcast Archive